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marc2109

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Reply with quote  #1 
I used the Tamiya paints recommended in the videos.  I put three protective Future coats on after the camo.  I tried to apply one of the walk around decal lines to the wing.  First off, I couldn't get it straight.  It started to adhere before I could move it around much.  Second, I used Walther's Solvest to try to loosen it but that didn't work either- The Walthers left a nasty stain on the model.  I tried to wash it off with water and a cloth, and the paint came off.  I have used Walthers before with acrylics and it didn't do this- not sure what is going on.

I ordered that MR Mark setter and softener- hopefully that won't destroy the paint!!

How do you get a straight line decal to go on straight?  Is there a trick to it? 

Repainting now-  what a pain.  It looked so nice too! 

I have had such a hard time with this model from the start- a little discouraging.
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Jason Gaspard

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Reply with quote  #2 
I've seen more and more problems lately with Future either discoloring, fogging, tape lifting decals after overcoats...I switched to Alclad Aquagloss and have not looked back.

As far as manipulating decals, especially large ones, I wet the area with water and if it starts to adhere before it's placed I flood it with another brush full of water, it gets underneath and lifts it off, they are a pain and it takes experience. That said, very long delicate lines are sometimes easier sprayed.

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TedUSA

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Gaspard
I've seen more and more problems lately with Future either discoloring, fogging, tape lifting decals after overcoats...I switched to Alclad Aquagloss and have not looked back.

As far as manipulating decals, especially large ones, I wet the area with water and if it starts to adhere before it's placed I flood it with another brush full of water, it gets underneath and lifts it off, they are a pain and it takes experience. That said, very long delicate lines are sometimes easier sprayed.


I also had a decal problem with a build [P-38] where the future did not seem to do its "job". It had cured for over 24hrs and I used a minimum of decal solution. I got stains in the paint and so forth. I do keep a container of water close during decals [separate from the water I loosen the decals from the backing paper with] in case I need to re-wet the decal to move it around. Difficulty moving the decal around may also be a function of what "tool" you use to move the decal with. A pin in a handle [like a pin vise] can work well, sometimes a soft brush, sometimes an xacto blade very carefully [like the back of the blade tip but you still risk cutting it]. I have also used wet q-tips on occasion. you might try placing a very narrow strip of tape along the length of where the line must go [but not in the exact place] to use as a sort of "guide". It can really be difficult if there are no panel lines or other detail to help you place it correctly.

I am not familiar with Walthers decal solutions but Mr Mark solutions are strong and you stand more of a chance ruining the paint with them. Mr Mark is for thick, stubborn decals. If you can, take a look at Bob's decal video for a review. the most common decal solutions are the Microscale Micro sol and set.

Here is a link to the video:

http://www.genessis-models.co.uk/members-area/decaling.html

__________________
Ted

pinterest pg. of scale models/dioramas:
http://www.pinterest.com/intrstinpintrst/awesome-scale-models/


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marc2109

Senior Aircraftman
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Posts: 46
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Gaspard
I've seen more and more problems lately with Future either discoloring, fogging, tape lifting decals after overcoats...I switched to Alclad Aquagloss and have not looked back.

As far as manipulating decals, especially large ones, I wet the area with water and if it starts to adhere before it's placed I flood it with another brush full of water, it gets underneath and lifts it off, they are a pain and it takes experience. That said, very long delicate lines are sometimes easier sprayed.


Thanks Jason, I went out to the hobby shop this morning and got some.  They had one bottle left.  I sprayed on the first coat.  It went on super easy through my airbrush- very even.  I'll wait 20 min or so and put on a second light coat, then let it cure until tonight and go at the decals again.
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marc2109

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedUSA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Gaspard
I've seen more and more problems lately with Future either discoloring, fogging, tape lifting decals after overcoats...I switched to Alclad Aquagloss and have not looked back.

As far as manipulating decals, especially large ones, I wet the area with water and if it starts to adhere before it's placed I flood it with another brush full of water, it gets underneath and lifts it off, they are a pain and it takes experience. That said, very long delicate lines are sometimes easier sprayed.


I also had a decal problem with a build [P-38] where the future did not seem to do its "job". It had cured for over 24hrs and I used a minimum of decal solution. I got stains in the paint and so forth. I do keep a container of water close during decals [separate from the water I loosen the decals from the backing paper with] in case I need to re-wet the decal to move it around. Difficulty moving the decal around may also be a function of what "tool" you use to move the decal with. A pin in a handle [like a pin vise] can work well, sometimes a soft brush, sometimes an xacto blade very carefully [like the back of the blade tip but you still risk cutting it]. I have also used wet q-tips on occasion. you might try placing a very narrow strip of tape along the length of where the line must go [but not in the exact place] to use as a sort of "guide". It can really be difficult if there are no panel lines or other detail to help you place it correctly.

I am not familiar with Walthers decal solutions but Mr Mark solutions are strong and you stand more of a chance ruining the paint with them. Mr Mark is for thick, stubborn decals. If you can, take a look at Bob's decal video for a review. the most common decal solutions are the Microscale Micro sol and set.

Here is a link to the video:

http://www.genessis-models.co.uk/members-area/decaling.html
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marc2109

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Reply with quote  #6 
Thanks Ted, Great tips especially using some masking tape at a guide!  I'll give that a go when my gloss coat has cured tonight. 
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TedUSA

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Reply with quote  #7 
I may switch to something else also if I have any trouble with the Corsair. I did think of something re: the FUTURE/Klear/etc. The first bottle I had was the old labeling--FUTURE--it was the last bottle I have seen locally. It REQUIRED that you pour some in a bucket and add water before using it on the floor. In other words it was concentrated. The bottle I have now--pictured below, needs no dilution, no bucket. IT IS ALREADY DILUTED! If you have used the diluted product and thinned it down to AB a model, you are getting really thin thin coverage. Hmmmmm.......that is a marketing trick to get you to buy MORE product. Its like the difference between a can of tomato sauce and a can of tomato paste. When you buy tomato sauce, you are paying for the "water" in the can! Just a thought that might explain some of the problems several here have had with the product?




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Ted

pinterest pg. of scale models/dioramas:
http://www.pinterest.com/intrstinpintrst/awesome-scale-models/


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marc2109

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Posts: 46
Reply with quote  #8 
Yeah Ted, I have the same bottle as you.  I poured it straight into the airbrush.  Three coates.  The walther's solvset stained and when I tried to clean it up with water the paint came up.

The Aqua Gloss has cured now, but I am going to wait until the Mr Mark products arrive from Sprue Brothers to attempt the decals again.
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TedUSA

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc2109
Yeah Ted, I have the same bottle as you.  I poured it straight into the airbrush.  Three coates.  The walther's solvset stained and when I tried to clean it up with water the paint came up.

The Aqua Gloss has cured now, but I am going to wait until the Mr Mark products arrive from Sprue Brothers to attempt the decals again.


Well, I hope that the next round with the decals is a breeze. you deserve it!

__________________
Ted

pinterest pg. of scale models/dioramas:
http://www.pinterest.com/intrstinpintrst/awesome-scale-models/


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marc2109

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Posts: 46
Reply with quote  #10 
Well, that did not go well.  I let the Aquagloss cure overnight- two coates, used the Mr Mark Setter, and it still stained the paint!!  The remaining line decals disintegrated when I tried to slide them off the paper, after letting them sit for a full or move them on the model- they just broke into tiny pieces.  I want to give up,  What do I have to do?  I did everything according to the videos- I applied the setter to the model where the decal goes- everything.  They just broke apart anyway.

Maybe I should take up basket weaving or something.
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nigel56

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Reply with quote  #11 
Sorry lads, but you are not using the right product.

It is not Floor Care Multisurface Finish...it is Multisurface Floor Wax.



It also states it was once called Klear.

This works, the only differnce being that it is slightly milky in colour and has a lovely smell.

[thumb]
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Brundledonk

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc2109
Well, that did not go well.  I let the Aquagloss cure overnight- two coates, used the Mr Mark Setter, and it still stained the paint!!  The remaining line decals disintegrated when I tried to slide them off the paper, after letting them sit for a full or move them on the model- they just broke into tiny pieces.  I want to give up,  What do I have to do?  I did everything according to the videos- I applied the setter to the model where the decal goes- everything.  They just broke apart anyway.

Maybe I should take up basket weaving or something.


Marc, I feel your pain brother.

if there is going to be a problem for me during a build its the decals, one of the problems is that not all decals behave the same way or respond to decal solution, Tamiya ones in particular can be nasty, I had some break up the moment they went into water on my Tamiya Phantom.

Sometimes they are really thick and just won't conform to the surface (nomatter what solution is used) you can sometimes identify the Tamiya ones that will be a problem by the thickness of them on the sheet.

I have seen a technique on an Autimotive modelling website that shows how to put them down using hot (not boiling) water, you should be able to put your finger in the water without scalding yourself.

The decals will release pretty quickly in hot water and you just need to apply them with water.

After the decal is in position, you use a paper towell soaked in hot water to press them down into the recessed detail.

Only use really hot water on the thick Japanese style decals as the hot water will shrink the carrier film on regular ones

I have also seen a hairdryer used to soften them, but I would be careful if you try this not to melt the plastic (it doesn't take long)

A problem that can occur when using decal solution over future is that if the solution contains ammonia (and many do, you can smell it) it will dissolve it.

Now I'm far from an expert on laying down decals (but over the years I have experienced most problems and these days I get by)

I use micro set and micro sol for the majority of my decals and I also use future as a clear coat.

I dip the decal into water and leave it there for around 10-15 seconds, then lay it face up onto a paper towell.

After the decal has freed from the backing sheet (this varies depending on the decal sheet manufacturer.

I leave them for five minutes and then gently try an move them with my finger, once the move on the backing sheet with no resistance they are ready

I apply micro set to the area where the decal is going to go and apply the decal over it using twezzers to hold the backing sheet and a damp clean paint brush to slide the decal , if you put enough setting solution (NOT SOFTNER) the decal should slide easily

Then I use a Q tip and roll it over the decal to squeeze out any air bubbles

After that I use a piece of kitchen towell to gently press the decal into the recessed detail.

Then I let them dry.

If the decal hasn't fully conformed to the detail only then will I use a softner, if there are any air bubble I prick them with a decal and apply the micro sol over the top then leave them alone, they will bubble and wrinkle but don't be tempted to touch them.

After they are dry they should have bedded down, if not just add a bit more softner and repeat as needed.

Also it's very important to be sparing with the softner, just add a little at a time and don't splash a load on as it will eat into the top coat.

If too much gets on then you can soak it up by touching it with the corner of a bit of kitchen towell

After everything is dry I then wash of any decal residue with a bit of clean water (if left it can effect any flat coats that go on)

Sometimes the solution makes the future go cloudy or milky looking, but this will disapear if you give it another light coat of future

As for the walkway decals, these are always a pain to get straight, I built a Revell 1/32 spitfire a while back and couldn't get them straight, I should have put a bit of masking tape adjacent to where they needed to go to give a straight edge to work to.

I hope some of this help mate,

Try not to get to down about it, we all have suffered along the way (and still do from time to time) you will easily be able to get aftermarket decals for a 1/48 spitfire, an additional cost I know, but you will find that aftermarket ones are a much better quality than the kit supplied ones and go down much easier.

Cartograph (a decal printer based in Italy) are considered to be very high quality, but a quick google of aftermarket decals for your spitfire should point you in the right direction.

Keep on trucking Marc, things do become a little easier as your experience builds

Pete






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Brundledonk

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel56
Sorry lads, but you are not using the right product.

It is not Floor Care Multisurface Finish...it is Multisurface Floor Wax.



It also states it was once called Klear.

This works, the only differnce being that it is slightly milky in colour and has a lovely smell.

[thumb]


This is the "new" formula Klear in Europe (the EU banned some chemicals so Johnsons had to re formulate)

The old Klear was the same or at least very as the one that Ted and Mark are using but it doesn't have a perfume smell (in the UK at least)

It's crystalclear in the bottle , I still have just over half a bottle of the original Klear and once it's gone I'll have to give the new version a try.
I have heard divided opinion on it, but to be honest the problems that people have reported with it are the same as the ones I had with the original one before I got the hang of it.

Some people seem to believe that this stuff has mystical properties lol, but I use it as its a really cheap gloss base for decals, (I think mine was just over 2 quid years ago) I would have spent 20 times that on an expensive varnish that I would then cover with a flat coat lol

I do use an expensive gloss varnish (laquer base) when I want a high gloss finish

Pete
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TedUSA

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel56
Sorry lads, but you are not using the right product. It is not Floor Care Multisurface Finish...it is Multisurface Floor Wax. It also states it was once called Klear. This works, the only differnce being that it is slightly milky in colour and has a lovely smell. [thumb]


Klear is not sold in the USA. its the European version Jonson & Johnson sells there. The product in my picture smells very sweet and it is "clear"--no color, as opposed to the milky color that the "FUTURE" product I started with. I think they changed formulas everywhere? No more "FUTURE" here. It was completely pulled from the stores here. I think it was a chemical problem here also. What I have now just does not seem to guard against decal solutions as well. Of course, the P-38 was a metal finish. I have to see what happens with the Corsair [blue]. I always wondered if the FUTURE had more "wax" in it???

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Ted

pinterest pg. of scale models/dioramas:
http://www.pinterest.com/intrstinpintrst/awesome-scale-models/


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TedUSA

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Reply with quote  #15 
Pete made an excellent post. I have not read some of the alternative techniques for decal application [thanks Pete]. The first build I posted here--a 1/48 Spitfire, was full of decal problems. I pulled parts of two main decals off the plane after I had applied and put on an overcoat of PLEDGE. several days after I used some tamiya tape and it ripped the decals. I used some pieces off the decal sheet to repair one and I painted repairs on the other one. I also had some decal problems on my Mig29A 1/48.
I just keep thinking that I need MUCH more experience in order to overcome all the problems I currently have. I'm good except for problems with Paint, decals, CA glue, canopies,cockpits, etc...............................seriously. try to hang there Marc and remember how many diverse skills you are dealing with. In modeling, you often have "one chance" to do a specific skill accurately and well. "RECOVERY" is a BIG part of modeling. Best wishes.

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Ted

pinterest pg. of scale models/dioramas:
http://www.pinterest.com/intrstinpintrst/awesome-scale-models/


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